Episode 30: Adventures, Experiments and Doing New Things

In this episode of The Kadence Beat, we hear about Adventures with Hannah, Ben’s Productivity Experiments, and Kathy’s newsletter writing cohort class. Kathy shares a haunting conversation with a Lyft driver that has her thinking about how WordPress could be more effective in a sea of numerous ways to get a website online. This leads to a conversation about how important it is to just get started building your dream and building audience without being distracted by which tools you’re using.

Listen in a new window.

Timestamps & Links

• 0:00 intro
• 0:47 Adventures with Hannah
• 4:06 Why you should do new things
• 5:40 The Book of EST, Werner Erhart & EST training
• 6:49 Productivity with Ben
• 9:12 Building a Second Brain
• 11:15 Newsletter writing
• 13:54 The newsletter about the Lyft driver who built his site on Wix
• 16:47 How did the newsletter cohort work?
• 19:05 Go do things that push you
• 19:55 Put your ideas out there and test them fast
• 22:31 Don’t get distracted by the tools, do it the easiest way
• 28:14 There is no perfect tool, there are just the tools that get you connected to your audience and helps you bring your passion to life

Transcript

Kathy: Welcome to, I think, it’s episode 30 of The Kadence Beat. Hannah, let’s call it 30. 30.

Hannah: That’s, you know, sometimes that’s what I do with my age. I’m like, I think I’m 30. But you like when you get to this point, I’m not really sure. You know, I think 30, so this episode is probably 30 ish.

Kathy: That is so true.

Kathy: Can I say I’m 30, too? I had my child when I was eight, but yeah, I’m gonna go with 30, too. We’re all 30. This is the episode, the anti-aging episode, where we’re all 30 or less.

Hannah: Thirty and flirty and thriving. We’re here for it.

Kathy: I love it. I love it. So we’re gonna start a new segment called Adventures with Hannah because Hannah, not only have you run like the Boston Marathon and you what had a personal record at the marathon? What happened?

Hannah: Twenty seconds if you wanna count that.

Kathy: Twenty seconds count. Like how was that? I don’t think we’ve talked about the marathon. We, I think before it happened, we like foreshadowing and all of that. But how was it for you?

Hannah: It was an experience for sure. Some people are like, I wanna run the Boston Marathon a million times and there’s like signs, people who are like, this person, 53rd Boston Marathon and like, I have friends who are already training for next year. I feel like it was great and I don’t never need to do it again. But it was, I mean, it is an experience. There are, I think they said half a million people take off work just to come and cheer you on?

Well, maybe it’s actually way more than that. It’s insane. I mean, there’s, the whole entire time you’re running, there’s hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people just cheering for you. Um, and yeah, it’s, it’s a really wild time. But yeah. And you had, it’s like you had them kinda fun. Like, I’d be like, it was fun, but also it was really hard, but it was fun.

Kathy: The family came up and, and cheered you on, your mom was there? Yes.

Hannah: Yes, my mom and little brother were there and my boyfriend and then my cousins lived just outside of Boston, so they came in, which was super fun. And I had two other friends who were running it as well. Actually three other friends, so, It was fun to be out there with them, although I did not see them the entire day because there was so many people, but I knew they were there.

Kathy: That’s so cool. And since then you’ve like been taking it easy. I hear that’s sarcastic, like what else have you’ve been doing? Like, like you just don’t stop. That’s why we have adventures with Hannah here.

Hannah: It’s, it’s not something to be proud of. I need to learn how to slow down. Truly. I have run less, but I did run a half marathon a couple weeks ago, and it was fine.

I, yeah, it’s, my body’s taking a long time to recover. So anyway, Ben was making fun of me because I ran a half marathon and then two days later went and climbed Mount Adams. And like I said, I’m not proud of it. It was very hard. And I hit many low moments. One was we were snowboarding down. Now Adams and my, I had to splitboard and I couldn’t get it to turn, and so I was laying upside down in this like tree well, and there maybe were tears and I was like, yeah, this was too much. This was too much. It was wild and fun. We skied like six miles from the summit, which was crazy.

Kathy: Wow. Awesome. That’s amazing.

Ben: And so on that particular trip, I had dropped her off at some 3:30 in the morning at an airport to be like, Hey, so tomorrow you’re running a marathon, and the next two days later you’re climbing the mountain.

So she’s like, those two events are wrapped up in all of her travel and work and catching babies and everything else. So, yeah.

Kathy: Wow. Yeah, it’s, and how many babies have you been? Yeah, that’s a lot. But hey, that’s what life is all about, is having fun and adventures and doing things and pushing yourself to, I mean, cuz if you’re not growing, you’re in a comfort zone and comfort zone’s kill or so I’ve been told.

Ben: Yeah, this fascinating thing I heard on a podcast about a neuroscientist was getting interviewed and he said that he studied why people feel like time slows down when like something bad is gonna happen. Like they’re in a car wreck and they can, like, everything seems to slow down. And he said it’s not actually that they’re experiencing time slow down, like time is happening just as fast as it always is.

It’s that their memories are so rich in that moment. Because they’re like, it’s a, it’s a new experience. It’s experience of like, your brain is like, I need to remember everything cuz this is really scary or this is really intense. And so your brain captures a whole lot more data than it usually does.

Usually your brain’s like, don’t need to remember that. Don’t need to remember that. And so he said, if you want to feel like you’re living longer or like having fuller years, if you will, have more new experiences. Because then your brain will take more information and you will feel like time is not going as fast because you’re capturing more data.

And so when you, when you think about it later on, you’ll feel like it’s slowed down for you versus if you’re not doing anything fun or interesting or new, you will look back and go, man, that last month was like a blur and it’s because your brain, there’s nothing to remember here, so just move along.

Hannah: That’s interesting.

Ben: I thought it was fascinating.

Kathy: Anyway. Interesting. Yeah. So going for those peak experiences

Ben: and just new experiences too, like pushing yourself to do something new and the novelty of it allows, you know, your brain remembers more, thus you feel like you’ve lived

Kathy: more. Yeah, yeah.

Interesting. So there’s this author that I worked with, He, we wrote this book called The Book of EST, and the EST trainings were these things that happened in like the seventies, what’s this guy’s name? Werner Erhard, I think. Um, but these EST trainings, like, so if you have a headache and the headache is just persisting, his thing was feel the headache, like fully feel it be with the headache.

And then it goes away because it’s like we go through these experiences in our lives and like things that we don’t wanna deal with, we just kind of like, eh, I don’t wanna deal with the taxes and the headaches and all of these things. But if you like, are fully present with an experience, I. Then you have like more control over it.

And so like the, the thing that stuck with me with all of this was that if you have a headache, like be fully present, be like in the experience of having the headache and then the headache goes away. It’s a little weird thing about like peak experiences and, and that peak experiences can happen. Not, yeah, like you don’t have to climb a mountain to have a peak experience.

You could have a piece of peak experience. Listening to this podcast with us. Yeah.

Hannah: Come on.

Ben: Well, and that segues into my segment, which I’m going to call. Figuring out how to be productive with Ben or something like that. I’m constantly trying new ways to be more productive in terms of like how to organize my thoughts and life and this tool, that tool.

If you have a note taking app, I’ve probably tried it. I’ve tried just about every single productivity app. And I’m always trying new ones and one of the main things and how this relates to that is the idea of trying to capture things when it comes to mind, to allow your mind the space to like, okay, it’s written down somewhere.

I’ll let it go. And that allows you to, instead of like constantly shoving or I need to remember that, or I need to remember that or remember that, and then you have this big shadow of things that you need to remember and you’re constantly living under pressure of like, what am I forgetting? What did I not…

What did I need to remember that I didn’t remember or what important thing? And so I’ve been really focusing on like capture, capture, capture. Like how do I capture things that I need to do, thoughts, ideas, whatever. So I can just free up that brain space. And I’ve tried a lot of apps, but right now the app I really like is Tick Tick.

And the reason I like it, I like, Todoist as well for capturing quick thoughts. I put everything into the inbox. Tick Tick, Todoist is are very similar. The big difference with Tick Tick is it syncs with your calendar better, and I can drop things in for timeboxing, which I like to do. So I can look at my calendar and say, today I wanna move this and this into the day, and that’s when I’m gonna get done.

And I feel a lot better about life if I do that, but the main thing is to capture inside of a to-do it list app. And if you capture an inbox and then whenever you have a minute you sort it and you put it in where it needs to go. So if it’s like I need to remember to buy a gift, then like I put that in my to-do list and so I have like an inbox and then I have a to-do list and then I in my to-do list, I can mark things as like, by-this-time, or I actually don’t need to do that till tomorrow.

If it’s a calendar thing, like an event, stick it in the calendar. If I need to write an email or whatever, like it’s sorting that inbox later. But the main thing is like capture and Tick Tick is a great app for that. So there you go. There’s my productivity app I’m currently playing around with.

Kathy: Interesting. Have you ever heard of this thing called Building a Second Brain?

Ben: yeah, yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah, I do.

Hannah: Ben’s been trying to do that his whole life.

Ben: I’ve practiced a lot of those things. I wouldn’t say I have arrived. I haven’t actually read there, so it, it’s called, comes from a book from a person I’ve watched like videos and listened to podcasts about it.

I haven’t read the book. Um, but I, but yes, that concept of how do I organize things in a, in a sense, in a second brain. And so I definitely do that. I use some apps, and things to try to organize like a lot of stuff in a way that is like that. But in all of that, like the most practical thing is still like, capture and organize on the front end versus like, They go into like a lot of structure for how you want to keep stuff, yeah. But yeah. Okay, cool. I find all the productivity things fascinating and like Atomic Habits probably one of my all time favorite book reads. Like, it’s like a yearly read.

Kathy: Nice. Yeah. So the building a second brain thing keeps coming up in weird.

So I’ve. Open tabs and then, you know, I do a tab nuke at the end of the week where it’s just like, we’ll start, we’ll try again next week. Right. Like, all these interesting things I wanna get into and it’s just like, I don’t have enough me. Right. But that keeps popping up and going away. So I was wondering if you are into that.

Ben: Hmm. Yeah. There’s a lot of cool things you can do to try to organize it. I, I mean, yeah. Like I said, I’m not that far along into where like, I would say like confidently, oh yes. Like I have a second brain. I have a good system right now using, you know, Notion and things like that for how I do stuff. And Tick Tick is like the main daily interface thing.

Kathy: Okay. I’ll have to open a tab, see if it survives the week. We’ll see. Interesting. Very, very cool. Well, I guess my segment is crazy things I’m gonna try. I just, things show up in my world. And I try crazy things. Um, and I sometimes spend money on crazy things because it’s like, okay, I wanna, well, my life is kind of limited right now.

I have to encourage a stroke patient to do hard things. And so I think, because I’m always like, I sound like Tony Robbins, like in this motivational, you could do this, um, motivational. Stuff. So maybe it’s like affecting me where I’m just like, I’m gonna try a thing. I joined a newsletter writing cohort. It’s a class and it’s part of a group called Small Bets.

And the guy that started it, he was, he worked for Amazon and he started the Small Bets thing. And it’s just like people who are starting small entrepreneurial types of experiments. Not like this big bet, but like a small bet to see experiments and I’m like, Ooh, this sounds fun and interesting. There are so many interesting people in this group and they all talk about their ideas and I, I’m really into that, that like I could just sit and watch what other people are doing and be very excited about it.

But like newsletters, I write, I can do this, I’m gonna be great at it. And I have been humbled. Because there’s so many really good writers as a part of this, who are really successful with like doing CK newsletters. They’re getting paid money to to write and I’ve thrown a couple of articles in there and I get, nobody’s really tearing me down, but I get so much good feedback and I think I just like, I really have missed like collaborative writing experiences and so I’m having that now and it has felt.

I feel empowered and uplifted and I wanna just like write all of the things now. So it’s been really exciting. One of the first things I wrote about was one of the things I wanted to talk to you guys about because I was coming home from a trip and I’m not driving to D F W airport ever again after Word Camp Phoenix.

Never again will I drive to that airport. Okay, well it’s terrible. It’s a terrible air airport. Should we dare ask?

Hannah: Yeah.

Kathy: It is the worst organized airport in the entire world. So I figure, okay, I’m flying American, I can just park in terminal C and when I come home, my car will be right there, so I’m gonna pay extra for that privilege.

And they dump me off in like terminal D and I’ve gotta take a train at 2 12 30 in the morning to try to find my car. I didn’t get home until like two o’clock in the morning. It was. Never again will I drive. And then I got charged $80 for the privilege of it. And I was just like, never again. I will pay someone.

So I got this Lyft driver as I’m coming home from this trip and it was pretty early in the morning. Um, and I’m like, so do you drive Lyft full-time? No, I just started, I just quit my job and I just started a business and I’ve got 130,000 followers on TikTok and I draw anime and I’m like, Interesting.

Tell me more. And this guy was really fascinating. We’re now Instagram friends, like good friends and everything. And we’re talking about like different strategies with fun, this business. And I’m like, how are you selling? How are you selling? Um, how are you monetizing this? And he’s like, well, I’m selling art on my website.

Do tell. I’m hoping for a WordPress story here. I’m really hoping for a WordPress story. Oh, I’ve got a Wix site. And I’m just like, no, like tell me more. Why did you choose Wix? And he’s like, it just, I see ads for it everywhere. And it just seemed like it’s easy. It’s so easy. It was so easy to set up. And so I go on TikTok and I do live streams, and he draws his art and people go to his.

His site and they buy his art. He has quit his full-time job and is supporting a wife and baby who, his wife doesn’t work. She’s at home with the baby, which I just love. And he is also going to like conventions and selling his art. But he’s selling it on Wix. And I’m listening to him tell me all of these stories of how well it’s going and how he’s growing his audience.

And I can’t find my little, my little in on WordPress and Kadence and like, I can’t even talk about Shop Kit, like what my life is ending, what do I do? So then we start talking about like, how is he building his email list? And I got my in there and we ended up like sharing like ideas, but. He helped me think about TikTok differently.

I helped him think about an email list differently, and it was a very productive conversation, but it’s haunted me, you guys. It’s haunted me that he is on Wix and finding success is WordPress. That’s funny. It’s still haunted. So that’s the first article I wrote for this newsletter cohort is like why people should be on WordPress and Wix isn’t gonna be supporting him forever and like I just.

But it, he’s fine on Wix. I can’t tell him to get off Wix. He needs to build his audience and build his business and build his list. And that’s more important than him moving being on WordPress right now. And I felt terrible about it because I know long term, you know, open source, own your platform, all of the things that we normally talk about.

But at the same time, he is successfully building a business. On Wix, and I know a lot of people are building successful businesses on Shopify, and Squarespace is helpful for a lot of people and Webflow. Mm-hmm. And I’m seeing now people talking about Canva and how it’s a great platform for building a website.

Where is WordPress going to be in the future?

Ben: Yeah, I mean, I think one, I wanted to ask this. Did they, did they give you a prompt or you just write any newsletter and you give it to them? Like they don’t give you any like, oh, in your writing group, it’s just whatever you want. It’s

Kathy: whatever you want. But they are definitely talking about like, where is your expertise?

So they. They want me, they want all of us to basically assert your expertise and assert, um, why someone should listen to you. And they gave a bunch of examples of different people who, um, one guy worked at Microsoft and helped. He had the, the perfect frame of, I helped. Close billions of deals with these Excel trips and or tips and tricks.

And I’m like, I’m sold billions of deals with Excel. I wanna know more. Right. And so like they’re showing you like, what are these like little hooks that you can interest people in your newsletter with your expertise in your experience, which is what Google’s telling us they want from us Anyway, so I’m seeing all of these different people and then they come to me and I’m like, I don’t wanna talk about.

I am talking about security, aren’t I? I’ve cleaned over 2000 WordPress sites. I, I’m like, all right, I can talk about this. This is, it’s kind of boring to me now. But anyway, you know, I have to talk a little bit about my expertise. That’s what they’re like trying to pull up people. To be personable, to be interesting, and to share your expertise.

And they have like these formulas for doing it and it’s been very fascinating, but it’s also been kind of challenging cuz it’s like, I don’t know, but there are some people who are, have really interesting experiences and that’s what I’m enjoying more is like being able to contribute cuz you have to submit to your newsletter and then the guys who are train are teaching the course will give you feedback and tell you how to make it better.

And they’ve made my writing better. But then you have to also contribute to other people’s newsletters and. What’s working for you with what they’re writing and what’s not working. So that experience is not only helping me be a better writer, it’s helping me think about communicating to audiences better.

And it’s been just, see, this is why I’m in marketing, cuz this is fun for me. This is what I’m doing on my Monday and Thursday nights because it’s like, all right, everybody’s fed now. Now I get to play. Yeah. I’m not climbing a mountain. I’m writing.

Hannah: I love it.

Ben: Yeah. But I, I mean, I think like bef like that whole thing is so crucial for like anyone in our audience to hear, like get into something where you’re being challenged and pushed.

Yeah, yeah. To like better tune your skills, like, and also like open up your eyes to see all like, All the directions that you, you know, like if you’re, if you’re feeling a burnout of like, my job isn’t very interesting, like, some of it’s just because you’re not feeding, like the curiosity part of it and the like, what’s happening.

Yeah, for sure. What are other people doing? What challenges can I put in front of me? Um, so like, if you’re in, you know, like I love that idea for like someone who’s doing web design, like go and find the. A group that will critique and force you to put out products mm-hmm. Or projects. Mm-hmm. And like all of that stuff, or if you’re doing anything like that, I think that that’s like such a cool way to interact with people and get feedback.

And so I think that that’s, that’s awesome. And then like to your point of like, okay, what about WordPress and where does this all fit? Um, I think that’s like part of the. Part of it too is like you just gotta get in the game with your ideas. Yeah. Like, and not focus too much on platform. Especially if you’re starting out.

And Wix is like, you know, we can poo ppo it. Like it’s obviously a successful brand and a lot of people are building really good things on it. And I’ve tried like Wix and Squarespace and there’s some like Squarespace’s fluid grid builder is super cool. And Shopify, like one of the, you know, big benefits to Shopify right now is honestly the shop app and the ability to do, to capture your audience through payment like is such a fascinating tool that they have that is only for Shopify. Um, and so like there’s a lot of reasons to join different platforms and it’s not like we’re here to say like WordPress is the best for everybody. I think there are some really good reasons to choose WordPress even to choose it if you’re starting out.

But I think what’s more important is to start somewhere and get it, test out your ideas. And so for that point, like the Wix like lets you spin up a site. Squarespace lets you spin up a site without paying anything. You can start to test your ideas, see if this is gonna come into a webpage and make sense.

Or like if you’re, you know, you want to test your writing skills. And Substack is a super simple like way to go, like, do I have something? Is this something that could be monetized? In which case, maybe I’ll invest some time into like creating and owning my own system in WordPress. Um, yeah.

Kathy: Love that. Yeah, it’s, it’s definitely a great place to get started, but then with any walled garden like that, you’re gonna bump into the wall. Right? You’re gonna bump into the limitations Yeah. Of the system at some point or another.

Ben: Or just get tired of paying the fees. Sure. I mean, that’s really what, you know, like Shopify and a lot of those just, you just start paying a lot of money.

I mean, Square’s online store is very expensive. Um, and yeah, once you, like, once you do a comparison, and again, it’s just about getting in and and trying things, but Medium is another good spot.

What are other platforms that are like, okay, I want to try out, I think I might try writing blogging, but I don’t wanna go through the trouble building a site, Medium, it’s probably the best place to go do a one-off article. See if you get traction.

Kathy: They’re, I love their editing experience on Medium. It’s, it’s sublime. I think it’s what WordPress and Gutenberg has, has. Kind of tried to be, but Medium just, they’ve had it for so many years where it’s just like your browser is Word. It’s, it’s a doc. It’s, it’s so much more than a doc and it’s so clean. I’ve loved how Mediums… See, this is my problem, is like, I have like all of these things, but then I get mm-hmm. I like, it’s just like when, um, like when iThemes the vulnerability report, I always kind of like look over it and it’s like, Ooh, look at this vulnerability.

And then later they’re like, have you gotten done looking at that? I’m just like, I’m, so, I just, I’ve proof of concept. This, I’m, I get lost in the technology and all of the tools, um, newsletters. Mm-hmm. Like I’m doing mine on ConvertKit cuz that’s, I love Convert Kit, but there’s ck, there’s Beehiiv, which has got a great experience and I’m just like, stop trying cuz I get like really distracted with like, wanting to play with all of the toys and the technology and the tools. And I need to be more like my Lyft driver and just like published, like just do it.

Yeah, yeah.

Hannah: I’m not though that way at all. I’m like, somebody told me the easiest way to do this. Tell me that you’ve already researched it, and I will just trust you. So I would be the person that’s like, if I saw an ad that was like, here’s the easiest way to build your website. And I like, wasn’t in WordPress already.

I’d be like, sick, I’ll do that. So, How do we convince people that they should be in WordPress? Like Kathy, if, if that Lyft driver would’ve been like, so what do you like, do you think I should be in WordPress? And why? Or you know, like what would your argument be? Had that door been open for you to like, push WordPress and therefore push Kadence.

Kathy: Yeah. You know me, if I’m in the back of a car, I’m gonna talk about WordPress and Kadence.

Hannah: Say your drive was a little bit longer, you know, how long would it take him for you to like…

Kathy: I just, I honestly just hearing where he was in terms of like how his business was growing. He had just quit his job like four months ago, wife and baby at home, and I’m like, build your audience and get your email list.

Like that to me felt like the greatest. Thing for him to do is to start establishing connections and building his community around his work. Um, because we’ve seen like how important community is in marketing, if you don’t have a community of people who are, who are fans, like core fans end up being your marketing army that, you know, builds that audience, um, for their, the people that they’re talking to.

Um, and that’s worked really well with a lot of different brands. Um, so I wanted. That for him before, own your platform. I couldn’t get there with him because that was so far off into the future of just like once he has. Yeah. Um, sort of like I. He, he’s in liftoff mode right now, so he just needs to really focus.

And then I just talk, I did talk to him a little bit about owning your platform and how, you know, there’s more flexibility. You can do more stuff and have like memberships and blah, you could do anything with WordPress. There’s a plugin for that. So I gave him that whole spiel, but I didn’t wanna focus on that.

I’m like, have him like question, like, maybe I should change all of my focus and learn php. Yeah. Like, no dude, you just, you’re doing everything right. Yeah. You’re. Doing so great. Yeah. So, yeah. Um,

Ben: yeah, that is like, it is such e e even if you’re in WordPress, it’s hard to not get distracted by all the things.

Like, should I be, oh yeah. Using this product or this product or like, like, you know, there’s a lot to be distracted by and sometimes you just need to be focused on like, if, how do I make. This work and make money now and start to grow and then I can strategize. Um, but you gotta get it out there and you gotta see if it’s gonna work.

Um, yeah. And there’s obviously, like, there’s pros to WordPress in that, like the platform itself is free and there’s a lot of free tools, a whole lot of free tools. So your, you know, your semi average hosting is what you’re gonna be your monthly costs, and that’s, That’s not that high compared to what you’re gonna pay in other places to owning and being able to grow, all of those things that you need to do.

But I’ve definitely, like when I was doing freelance, I definitely ran into people being like, I want a website, and I wanted to do this, and then I wanted to do this, and then I also wanted to do this. And I was like, and then five more things they wanted it to do. And I was like, You have no one even knows about your website.

There’s no way you’re gonna get these 10 things off the ground and working. Like try to find the best thing that you want it to do and see if you can do that before you try to become like, A competitor to Facebook, essentially like just figure out what you like, do you have an audience in one area and then like you can start growing and WordPress is so great cuz you can grow in the platform.

Whereas having to switch and having to switch is, is tricky in the time consuming and there’s all the risks involved with it. But, but in the end, like if someone came to me and was like, I need. A simple website to sell this thing, and I saw an ad for Wix and I get it. I’d be like, okay, like you’re gonna hit a point where you’re gonna want to leave, but if it’s working for you in this moment, I’m not gonna be like, job number one leave.

It’s gonna be like, yeah, you should probably think about this down the road. But yeah, right now you need to think about is this gonna be viable where I can support a family and things like that. Yeah.

Kathy: Right, right. Yeah. I think it’s, it’s interesting cuz I think because so many of us work in WordPress, it’s like, okay, that’s our defacto tool.

It’s what we’re going to go towards. Mm-hmm. But really people need to choose the tool that’s going to vibe right with them, that’s going to allow them really to focus on making those connections between business and customer and grow that rather than. It, it, you have to pick the tool that’s going to work for you now.

Right? And if it doesn’t work for you in the future, you can always change. But all of the tools, there’s no right email tool, there’s no right website creation tool. It’s what tool is going to help you make the connection to a customer now, make customers and, and to grow that and scale that into a place where you can quit your job and you don’t have to drive Lyft anymore.

And yeah, you, you can really focus on, on doing the thing that you. That brings you joy in your that. I love talking to people like that and I, I think that’s one of the things I love so much about WordPress is you go to these WordCamps or you talk to people in the Kadence Facebook group, and it’s somebody who’s bringing their dream to life, and I just want that, right?

Mm-hmm. If it’s not WordPress, okay, for now, but I just, I am so empowered by seeing people. Find their passion in bringing it to the web and bringing it to their heart, really, because I could just see it and and hear it in his voice that he’s so proud of himself that first of all, hi, he’s paying for everything so his wife can stay home with their baby, but also doing something that he loves.

While he’s doing that, what more can he ask for? Mm-hmm. Yeah, and so that’s one of the reasons I am so. Excited about Kadence is because so many people coming into the Facebook group who are, are just getting started with Kadence, getting started with their dream and bringing it, and WordPress is able to do that for them and set them up for a long term success.

So thank you for letting me play with all of this stuff. I have so much fun with it. I love it.

Hannah: and I have so fun watching Kathy do it.

Kathy: I have fun watching Hannah do it, and Ben, like you, this team is so amazing and it’s been, it’s been fun getting to know everybody on the team, right? Because there’s so many people that you know, who watch us on YouTube or listen to the podcast wherever, but there’s so many people that you are not hearing about who are part of the Kadence team that are innovative, bright yeah. And really passionate about what they’re doing too. And yeah, so I just wanna shout out everybody on our team because mm-hmm. It’s a pretty cool team, don’t you think?

Hannah: We have such a cool team. Everyone’s so fun.

Kathy: Yeah, cool.

Hannah: We should do a podcast where everybody comes on.

Ben: That’d be wild. That would be wild. Yeah, it’d be so fun.

Kathy: I’m sure some people would be like, can I keep my camera off? And I just like hide because not everybody is gonna wanna put themselves out there as much as us. But remember episode one, you guys, episode one was kind of scary, but now look at us, we’re like, Yeah.

Would I tell you?

Ben: Yeah, if you say so.

Hannah: Now we’re 30 and flirty and thriving.

Kathy: We’re 30 and flirty. I think that should be the episode title. What do you think?

All right, any final notes? Anything? I know I’m not even gonna ask you, Ben, about like, what’s coming with Kadence. I’m just going to be patient like the, we’ve got stuff coming. Lots of stuff in the works, but we’re not even gonna talk about it because it’s so close and I don’t wanna put pressure on you,

Ben: Yeah. Yeah. We are working very hard. That’s, yeah. As could have been update as I can give, yeah, we’re working very hard.

Kathy: Amazing. Can’t wait to tell the news of launches and We’ll, we’ll leave it at that. Yep. All right. Well, this was fun. Good episode. We didn’t necessarily dive deep on anything, but we have new segments and I’m excited about that.

All right, with that, we will wrap up. Thanks for listening. Thanks for watching. If you’re watching us on YouTube, go ahead and hit the like, subscribe. If you haven’t done that, I think I have to say that in every episode, and we will see you next time on the Kadence Beat.